Interview with Elizabeth Jackson
by Alison Wade

Above and Below: Jackson wins the steeplechase at the 2002 USA Track & Field Championships.

Above: Jackson wins the inaugural NCAA steeplechase title in 2001. Photos: Alison Wade/New York Road Runners

Elizabeth Jackson has finished first or second in every USA steeplechase championship she has ever contested. A USA Champion in 1999, 2000 and 2002, Jackson also won the inaugural NCAA steeplechase title in 2001 while representing Brigham Young University. Jackson — who holds the American Record of 9:41.94 in the steeplechase — missed the 2003 outdoor season due to injury. Though the steeplechase is not yet contested in the Olympic Games or World Championships, it is on track to debut at the 2005 World Championships and 2008 Olympics.

After spending her early years as a dancer, Jackson took up running as a junior in high school. She improved rapidly, running a 4:51 mile by the time she graduated from East High School in Salt Lake City, Utah. At BYU, Jackson was the school's first runner ever to earn All-America cross country honors four years in a row. In addition to establishing herself as the preeminent U.S. steeplechaser, Jackson also ran her current 5,000m personal best of 15:50.52 in the spring of 2001, her final season representing BYU.

Jackson, 25, currently resides in Provo, Utah, where she trains under her college coach, Patrick Shane. She balances 40-hour work weeks as a pharmaceutical sales representative with an elite running career. We caught up with Jackson in early September.

Fast-Women.com: Can you tell us about the injury that kept you out of this summer's USA Championships?
Elizabeth Jackson: I had problems with my IT band on and off throughout the season. You know how everyone has their little injury that's always nagging? That's the one I always get when I'm trying to get back in shape and stuff, so I always have to be careful. I had that in college, a little bit, but it was never really bad. I had it a little my sophomore year and I got off to a slow start that year... For some people on the team, it's their calves or their ankle, but mine has always been that my IT band...

FW: When did it start bothering you?
EJ: Just throughout the season, and then it just got to the point where my workouts weren't going well. Coach (Shane) was just kind of like, 'Let's just focus on getting it better.'

FW: Is it better now?
EJ: Yeah, it's feeling great now.

FW: When were you able to resume training?
EJ: I was able to start training maybe three or four weeks before nationals, I was actually training pretty hard at the time of the championships, but I just hasn't been able to build up the base. If the championships were a month or two [later], I would have run them...

FW: Was it frustrating being there and watching the race?
EJ: A little bit. It was kind of weird. I was so glad I went and watched... I don't know, sometimes injuries can be a blessing in disguise, because part of me felt like I needed a year to not be burned out and just enjoy running and not be stressed about it, then come back and run for me, not for other people. So while I was at the track meet, it was really fun to watch... I did want to be out there, but at the same time, I felt like I wasn't supposed to run this year. I felt good about it...

FW: Do you have any race plans for the near future, then?
EJ: Right now I'm just building up my base and just training. I'm probably just going to run outdoor track this year. My coach and I are just going to take it a month at a time. If I'm feeling really good, I might race indoor... Otherwise, I'm probably just going to race outdoor track.

FW: Which event will you focus on? The steeplechase?
EJ: Yeah, mostly the steeple, and I'll probably run a few 5ks.

FW: Which event will you run at the Olympic Trials?
EJ: I'll probably do the steeplechase...

FW: ...Which isn't an Olympic event yet. Is there going to be any sort of exhibition race at the Olympics?
EJ: You know, I'm not sure, I kind of doubt it. I'd be surprised if there were, but I don't know. I feel like we don't always know, like we'll find out right before... Everyone tries to keep everybody informed, but I haven't heard anything about there being an exhibition, so I'm just not getting my hopes up. I'm just going to plan on competing at nationals. I mean, I'd have to drop a ton of time from my 5k to even be competitive, so it'll just depend on how I'm feeling. But most likely I'm going to run the steeple.

FW: Is it frustrating heading into an Olympic year knowing that you're not even going to try for a spot on the Olympic team?
EJ: Yeah, because I think a couple years ago they were pushing to try to get it for 2004, and we were all really excited. That would have been great and yeah, it's a little frustrating, but at the same time, you can't just have your whole running career based on one event... A lot of people who don't know a lot about track will come up to me and they'll be like, 'Are you training for the Olympics?' And I [explain] it's not like you're just training for one race. I would still be training regardless, because [the steeplechase] is going to be at the World Championships in 2005 and there are other opportunities. I've gone to Europe a few times to race, and it's been great. They've had a lot of opportunities for the steeple over there. So I'm feeling good about it, of course I'd love it if it were at the Olympics, but it's not even a guarantee I'd make it. Even if you've won nationals, you still have to perform at the Olympic Trials. I'd love the opportunity for it to be at the Olympics, but I'd still have to work hard and qualify at the trials.

FW: You have the American Record of 9:41.94. This summer the World Record got lowered to 9:08.35. When you see something like that, what's your reaction?
EJ: It's kind of hard because at one point, I think I was about eight or nine seconds away from the record. It was so fun because it was like, oh, it's super close, and [there was] the reality of maybe having a chance at it. But I think it's good because I think the more people that run it, the more competitive and legitimate of an event it will be. It's good for the event that more people are running it and the times are getting faster. I think in the long run, it will push everyone involved in the event. But, as far as the record goes, you look at that and you think, oh, I'm never going to [run that fast], but I guess you never know, right?

FW: Are you a full-time runner?
EJ: I actually work. Last year I just ran full time, but this year, I got a job. I'm trying to balance that with running.

FW: What do you do?
EJ: I'm a pharmaceutical sales rep.

FW: How many hours a week do you work?
EJ: It's a full-time job, but it's flexible, so it enables me to train. It's been good, it's been a little tough to try to balance the two, but I think with the job that I have, the first year is harder and then once you get your routing down and understand everything you're supposed to do, then it's a lot easier.

FW: What's your training situation — do you train with the BYU team or do you train with other post-collegiate runners?
EJ: We all train with the team, and then sometimes there are a couple other girls who are done with college that train, so sometimes we'll all get together and train a little later, because we work. Usually we just try to get together and train with the girls that are already there.

FW: So do you go to cross country practice during the fall and do the team's cross country workouts?
EJ: Yeah, I do. Basically I think it's just endurance training and it [involves] the same types of intervals, they're just on grass. For me, it's just great to have other girls to train with. It's only three times a week... It's just great to have that many girls in your city that run that pace and that distance, so you have someone to run with always.

FW: So were you doing your steeplechase training with Kassi Andersen and Michaela Mannova last spring?
EJ: Yeah, I trained with them on and off, when I wasn't injured, and I'll train with them this year too.

FW: Was it exciting for you to watch Kassi Andersen (who won the NCAA steeplechase title and finished second at USA nationals) do so well last season?
EJ: Yeah, she did really well. It's fun to see other girls succeed. Coach Shane is such an amazing coach. And training with those girls is just great because we just help push each other. I think all of us are happy when the other ones do well. I was excited because hopefully this year, we're all going to probably be running about the same times, so it'll be nice because we'll have a group of three or four of us to train together.

FW: What do you think makes Pat Shane such a great steeplechase coach, and what do you do that's different from other steeplers that you know?
EJ: Basically, I think Coach Shane really understands the technique. He coached Henry Marsh — who still has the men's (American) record... I just respect him a lot. Also, just generally, as a distance coach, I seriously think he's one of the smartest coaches around. He really knows how to train you hard when you need to train hard, but also rest. I've seen a lot of other programs, I have friends who run at other schools or run with other coaches... I know there are a lot of other great coaches and schools, but I think a lot of times they get overworked. Just through college I noticed that he's been really great at resting us and keeping that balance of training really hard but resting your body so you can recover, he's just really smart with that.

That's just with general distance. [With regards to] the steeplechase, I just think he's an amazing coach as far as technique goes, and race strategy. I just really trust him. He knows me really well and he knows how I race. You know, I struggle sometimes with my confidence — people sometimes don't believe that, but I really do. I'll be like, 'Coach, I can't do this! I don't feel good, I'm not going to be able to do it today.' He'll [say], 'You can do it...' I just really trust him. If he tells me I can go out and do something, I believe him, even if on my own I would never think that I could do it. He's done that for me a lot of times when I won nationals. Like I went into the race and maybe, even if I was the favorite, other people were thinking oh, she'll win... but I was thinking it would be really close. [Coach Shane] was like, 'You can go out, you can do it.'

FW: How is your training steeple-specific? Do you do any steeple training in the fall? And then what do you do during the spring?
EJ: During track season, basically we just do the normal distance training, we train like 5k runners. We do the workouts that coach gives us and we do the mileage that a 5k runner would do. Then, as far as training goes, starting in the springtime, he has us incorporate the hurdles and the water jump into our workouts and we do a lot of drills. We'll train with the 5k runners all year long and then he'll split us off, divide the 5k and steeple group, and we'll start doing intervals with hurdles and things like that.

FW: It seems like there are different schools of thought regarding steeplechase training. Some of the men sound like they don't practice going over barriers much.
EJ: Some people are just so good at it that they don't have to do as many drills as other people. But if someone doesn't have that natural technique, then they need to practice drills quite a bit.

FW: You've mentioned what a great coach Pat Shane is, and certainly that's a strong factor in BYU's success, do you have any idea what else makes BYU such a successful team year after year?
EJ: Honestly, I really feel like it's because of how smart he is as a coach, in resting us, and how much the runners trust what he thinks. I think it's probably equal parts, coach and team. It comes down to the synergy. I don't know what it is, the girls are just amazing. I don't know how to explain it, it's hard. You're on a team and when it comes to cross country, team synergy can go a long ways. I think when Courtney Pugmire Meldrum came in — she came in and she was an amazing runner — from her year on, the program just started gaining more and more momentum. Now it's just such a strong team that I'm sure they'll be strong for years to come...

I just think there's a healthy level of competition. You go to practice and everybody pushes each other, but it's not like you go on a run and everyone's like, 'I have to be better than you.' It's like healthy, positive, let's-push-each-other competition. I remember Courtney and I coming down the homestretch and we'd be laughing because we'd be like, 'Well if she's going to go, I'm going to go.' And coach would be yelling for us to slow down because he wanted us to go pace and not race at the end. But it was like we were friends, and it ended up just being fun. There are just a lot of really good friends on the team, everybody gets along and the quality of girls on the team is just amazing.

So I think, just over the years, that synergy and that momentum has just kind of increased and increased. It's just to the point now where, if you just came and watched a practice, the girls, they push each other so much that it makes everybody better. But at the same time, it's not a negative... I know that sometimes people will train together but it's almost like dog eat dog, if one person beats the other, they're upset. With us, it's more like... I don't know how to explain it... I think definitely the coach and the team.

FW: Do you think the healthy lifestyle at the school as a whole contributes at all?
EJ: I'd say definitely. The girls at BYU have very healthy lifestyles. I definitely think their decisions help them perform better as athletes. I think It's up to every person, what they're going to do, but I definitely think, if you are going to [drink, party, etc.], you need to do them in moderation, especially as an athlete. Obviously, things like smoking are even more harmful to an athlete, especially a runner. And of course there are many athletes who don't go to BYU who also don't smoke, but I definitely just think that in general the girls at BYU are really healthy and they're happy. I think it definitely affects their ability to perform well as a team.

FW: Is it true that you didn't start running until your junior year of high school?
EJ: Yes.

FW: How good of a runner were you in high school?
EJ: It's kind of a funny story. I was a dancer my whole life, I danced all day, like six hours a day, and I loved it. I miss it, I think about it all the time still; I [wonder] should I have been a dancer? But I'm really glad I chose running. Dancers have really good endurance, they're flexible and have great coordination. I think dancers make good steeplechasers. We've had a lot of girls who did steeple that either played soccer or danced, or did something where they developed good coordination.

So basically in high school, I ran my junior year and I hated it at first. I'm really stubborn, I'm really competitive and stuff so at the first couple cross country meets, I was like, 'OK, you just have to finish the race, but if you finish this race, you can quit the team.' I didn't want to drop out of the race, but then once you're done, you forget how bad it hurts, so you go back for more. And then soon I started to get used to it, I think, and I did pretty well. I ran like third or fourth on the team during my Junior year, I don't really remember. And then I finished 20th at state my junior year which was OK for someone who hadn't run, but it wasn't like I was doing anything amazing or anything. And then my senior year, I won and broke the course record. It was just weird to go from not having really run very much to performing like I did my senior year. I guess I already had pretty good endurance from the dancing, but I think it just took that year to really kind of realize my potential... It just took that year and then like all of the sudden I was just like, 'Oh, I can do this,' and then my coach was like, 'You should think about running in college,' and I hadn't even thought about that. It all happened really fast. I think I just started to get the momentum during the track season my junior year, and then that next season, I was just feeling really good and running well.

FW: Do you remember what your track PRs were in high school?
EJ: My junior year, I won state in the 800 in 2:17. The next year, my senior year, I won [the state title in] cross country and the outdoor track season of my senior year, I won state in the mile. My PRs were a 4:51 mile and a 2:14 800.

FW: So you were recruited to BYU?
EJ: Yes.

FW: It seems like Coach Shane could take a team of runners that no one's even heard of and turn them into superstars.
EJ: Definitely. He's just really good at finding diamonds in the rough. Probably a little bit like me: I went to the Foot Locker [West Regional] and I was sick and had a horrible race. My coach from high school was like, 'If you would have raced like you did at state, you would have placed here.' And he was telling me what he thought I would have done. I got 17th or 18th, but he was really confident I could have placed in the top eight and gone to the nationals. But basically no one out of state knew who I was. And even though I had run pretty good times, I wasn't like a Julia Stamps, or someone who everyone knew about.

There are a lot of girls like me who have improved tons once they came to BYU. If you compare the jump I took from my junior to senior year, I took an even bigger jump during my freshman year at BYU. I got in that group and they just pulled me along. It was just that synergy. I just improved so much because there were better people to run with.

FW: That's about it for our questions. So we probably won't see you in any race results until the spring?
EJ: I might try a couple road races... I ran cross country in college and I liked it because there was a team aspect, but I don't really like racing cross country. For me, it's like if I'm going to race cross country right now, I'm going to be on my own. If coach talks me into it, I might try to run the [USA Cross Country Championships in February]. I ran that a couple years ago and got 13th. I don't know, I might try it, but I'm not really excited about cross country, I like track better. If I were still on the team, I'd totally do it (laughs). You're just out there by yourself. Cross country's so long... maybe I'm just a baby (laughs) but there are hills and it's hard. I'd rather do the steeple.

FW: I can't say I blame you, I'd choose a flat road race over cross country any time.
EJ: Yeah, it's a whole new aspect of training and I really have to train hard the whole winter. The other thing is that there's really only like one or two races that you can go to as a professional (cross country) runner. I think that's frustrating to me, you train for about five months super hard, and then all of the sudden, it's like you have one race. But I may do some road races, just for fun, to kind of stay in shape and just to kind of try it out. I've never done one before... And then I'll just start with indoor or outdoor track.

(Interview conducted September 8, 2003, Posted September 23, 2003)